The web site has been down for a period because it had been hacked into and we are trying to get it back to normal. If anyone has any query please contact me on Tommy@lner-pacifics.me.uk and I will try and help. The database which is kept on a stand alone machine has not been affected by the above

Question No 16

I have just discovered your site. Is it possible to join so that I can browse?? I have one specific question: In September 1962, on the day after the Offord Collision involving 60123, I believe I was on a train diverted via March and Cambridge hauled by 60106, Can you confirm this and tell me exactly which train I was on (as part of a journey from Bradford to Kings Cross)?

Answer

On the 8th September 1962 the day after the Offord accident 60106 was on the 10.50 Leeds - Kings Cross diverted via Cambridge. With respect to the request to join – for security purposes I keep the database on a stand alone machine so that the information cannot be pirated. If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to ask me.

Question No 15

In the May 2000 issue of Steam Days, the text mentions A4 60009 hauling the last Up steam working on 9th September 1961 (a Saturday), and the last down working as being hauled by A4 60022 (no date given but I assume the 9th is inferred). However!  On the page directly opposite, a photo featuring 60022 is captioned the "last Down" steam hauled working on the 8th September 1961 (a Friday), which contradicts the information on the facing page.

To further cloud the issue, a Collin Gifford photo of 60009 on the Elizabethan taken at Edinburgh on 8 September 1961, would suggest this WAS the last working (assuming Mr Gifford specifically made it his business on that Friday to record the occasion - not the second-to-last day, when he could likely have attended the ultimate running as it was on a Saturday?)

Are your lists able to clarify this conundrum?  If the "9th" is a typo, and should have read "8th" then all would make sense.  Is this the case?

Answer

The Elizabethan only ran on Mondays to Fridays. On the Saturday and Sunday the train ran London – Edinburgh with a stop in Newcastle and was un named. The last official Elizabethan ran on Friday 8th with 60009 on the Up and 60022 on the Dn. The same 2 locos ran on the Saturday in the opposite directions which left both locos at the right end. However on the Sunday the train was advertised so 60009 operated the Up train to Newcastle and returned to Edinburgh on the Dn train. The Dn train to Newcastle was operated by 60014 and the Up train from Newcastle by 60028.

All very confusing but it was only the Elizabethan when it ran non stop and it ran un named when the Newcastle stop was made.

An interesting point is that the first 5 A4s withdrawn in December 1962 were the next ones due for general overhauls and included 60014, 28, 30 and 33 which had been overhauled for the 1961 Elizabethan season. The other one 60003 did not have a corridor tender.

Question No 14

Have you any evidence of 60505 working through Hartlepool in the 1950,s. I have a photo of it in Hartlepool station. 

Answer

I have it noted at Stockton on 18th September 1950 on a Dn pass at 13.42. On 30th April 1955 it was seen on an Up coal train at Sunderland and then later Up LE past Stockton at 16.08. Peterborough locos were not common round the coast route via Sunderland and Hartlepool.

NOTE - I have found that the date of the photo is 2nd April 1956 when 60505 worked an additional 00.30 Kings Cross to Glasgow train via the coast route. It worked from Peterborough - Newcastle on this train (Tommy 11th May) 

Question No 13

I have two photographs featuring Woodcock. One in Nottm Victoria 24.4.57 and another of the loco on Colwick Shed. Presumably these were taken on or about the same time? Why was 29 on Colwick? And how did she work back to the ECML?

Answer

60029 was on a Doncaster - Marylebone spl that day and failed at Nottingham. It was put on Colwick shed for repair. That is the only recorded visit that I have of this loco to Colwick shed. I do not know when it worked back to the East Coast main line but by early May it was back on the Tees Tyne Pullman diagram. It was not unusual for Pacifics to be on Colwick as Grantham shed regulary sent locos over for repair.

Question No 12

Can you add anything to the attached photo of 60515 at Holbeck Low Level on the Dn Queen of Scots.

Answer

I have blown up the photo and the loco has British Railways in full on the tender which places the loco as a Newcastle one in the early days of British Railways. I have an appearance on 24th July 1948 when it worked the Dn Queen of Scots from Leeds through to Edinburgh. The diagram was 10.10 Newcastle - Liverpool to Leeds and then the Dn Queen of Scots through to Edinburgh. The loco returned to Newcastle on the Up Aberdonian from Edinburgh.

It also worked this diagram on the 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th and 25th August, 22nd and 25th September and 9th October 1948 and several times in 1949 and 1950. It was a Heaton loco at the time.

Unless the original photographer has a note of the date I do not think we can pinpoint the exact date of the photo.

Question No 11

Re 60111 Enterprise 34E

In the latest issue of Steam Railway (page 50) there is a photo of the above by Brian Morrison and captioned as having been at Glasgow (St. Enoch) on 10th April 1953!   This is theoretically possible but seems somewhat improbable.
 
In the early season of Starlight specials when there was only one serving both Glasgow and Edinburgh they started from Glasgow (St. Enoch) departing via the Saltmarket curve on to the City & District to High Street and thence on to Edinburgh (Waverley) on the NB (they could have gone either via Bathgate or through Springburn to Cowlairs and thence via Falkirk (High)) and Haymarket A3s were used.   60111 could have reached Haymarket if it had been ex works but even so it would have had to have been borrowed several times for it to have got as far as Glasgow!   My thought (although it's just speculation) is that the photograph is more probably at London (Marylebone) 60111 either having arrived on a Starlight special from Glasgow (St. Enoch) or waiting to depart on one to Glasgow (St. Enoch).
 
Do your records by any chance show where 60111 was on or around 10th April 1953 and whether it did get to Glasgow (St. Enoch), might have done or couldn't possibly have done?

Answer

On the 10th April 1953 60111 worked the Dn inaugural Starlight Special but only from Marylebone to Leicester and there is a photo in British Railways Scrapbook 1955 and also in BR Diary 1948 - 1957. I wonder if it is the same photo in all of three publications, The loco worked back from Leicester to Marylebone the following day on the corresponding Up Starlight Special. The Up journey was reported in both the Railway Magazine and Trains Illustrated of June 1953
 
Enterprise was the first Pacific to be allocated for work in Scotland when it went to Carlisle Canal on 18th December 1928 for working the Waverley route. It was returned to Kings Cross in early April and replaced by a new A3 Pacific. During its short time in Scotland it spent 3 weeks or so in Cowlairs. I have no record of it ever getting back to Scotland after that.

Question No 10

You say that you have a record of all the pacifics that were used on the Queen of Scots in the period 1936 to 1939. Am I right to believe that A4s were not a regular sight on this train in that period? I would be interested to know which A4s did appear heading the train. One loco in particular which interests me is 2511 Silver King, the only one of the four original A4s to be based at Gateshead and whether this engine was ever allocated to the Queen of Scots. Your help would be much appreciated

Answer

In October 1936 two A3s (60054/56) were transferred to Copley Hill for the Queen of Scots between Kings Cross - Leeds and these worked daily and did not miss many trains. When they were not available Atlantics worked the train. When they went into Works an A3 from Doncaster was loaned to Copley Hill for these workings. The odd A4 did this turn if a failure occurred in London (eg 60021,30)
 
The Queen of Scots between Leeds and Glasgow was shared between Gateshead and Eastfield sheds and A3s again were rostered. The diagram was the Queen of Scots from Glasgow - Leeds and then a Liverpool train from Leeds to Newcastle. The loco was serviced at Gateshead and next morning worked a Newcastle - Liverpool to Leeds before returning to Glasgow on the Dn Queen of Scots.
 
Silver King worked the train on the 12th September 1938 when Queen Elizabeth was on travelling from Balmoral to Harrogate (load 10 on). The A4 worked on to Leeds and returned to Newcastle on the normal diagram. It also worked the diagram on the 11th/12th November 1938. These were the only two times that it worked that train. The usual working for this loco was on the Newcastle - Kings Cross turns. By late 1938 however any Gateshead pacific was used on this diagram
 
Other A4s which worked this diagram were (using BR Numbers) 60001, 2, 3, 4, 9,11, 12, 18, 20, 29, 31 and 4469. Of these 60002 was a regular choice. As a point of interest the last A4 to work on any part of the Queen of Scots was on the 24th August 1939 when 4469 (the A4 destroyed during the war at York) worked from Glasgow to Leeds and then Leeds - Newcastle arriving at 21.13
 

Question 9

When you have time could you please check if you have any information regarding A3 Grand Parade's visits to Doncaster Works after 1959

Answer

After 1959 its next visit to Doncaster was from 8th March 1961 to 8th May 1961 when it had a general repair. Although its official entry was on the 8th it actually worked up to Doncaster on the 11th on a class C freight. The only working I have of it after that repair before it returned to Scotland was on the 9th when it worked 1250 Dn a class C freight from Peterborough with 55 wagons on.

It next visited Doncaster for a casual repair on the 19th December 1962 when with 60151 it was towed up by V2 60864. It emerged from the works on the 21st January 1963.

Its final visit was from the 10th July 1963 to 15th August 1963 when it had a non classified repair and it was withdrawn from service on the 20th October 1963

Question No 8

I have lived all my life in Huddersfield and LNER Pacifics were rare. Any ideas how many LNER Pacifics graced Huddersfield Station. I only ever saw one A3 Blink Bonny in the 1960s on a special and a V2 on a footex from Sunderland

Answer

Here is a list of the locos I have for Huddersfield. In many cases it is not clear if the locos went right through but it is the best I can do

30.04.06 60093 10.00 spl Kings Cross - Huddersfield
44.09.03 60053 Up spl Manchester - Huddersfield 
54.01.09 60120 Football spl Huddersfield - Kings Cross 
60.08.06 60065 621 spl Huddersfield - Kings Cross arr 11.06 
61.05.22 60859 DH D245 09.45 Newcastle - Liverpool from Darlington - Leeds then by
                        itself to Huddersfield 
61.10.22 60889 ECS Leeds - Huddersfield 
62.08.11 60119 Huddersfield - Kings Cross arr 11.14 
62.08.29 60060 13.15 Kings Cross - Huddersfield
63.05.23 60133 1F56 Huddersfield - Kings Cross spl 
63.06.11 60086 Excursion Huddersfield - Alnmouth 
63.06.12 60808 Huddersfield - Alnwick spl at Newcastle
63.08.13 60006 noted at Huddersfield 
63.08.24 60942 Newcastle - Huddersfield football spl (wonder if this is the special you
                       saw)
63.12.31 60140 17.05 Liverpool - Newcastle from Huddersfield - Newcastle 
64.04.18 60051 1X49 South Yorkshireman Railtour Huddersfield - Derby / on Derby
                         shed 
65.04.29 60131 10.33 Huddersfield - Kings Cross spl to Doncaster 
67.09.14 60026 remains towed eastwards past Huddersfield 
67.09.15 60007 past Huddersfield towing a diesel to Crewe Works